Also, there is something wrong with your calculations in the "Suggested" options as well. If the income is calculated purely on the bot`s value, how come a 3.9m bot is now earning more than a 8.2m value one?
I just loaded a save from version 2c, in the new version 2d, before this new feature was added to the mod, checked the captains screen and the heart was there straight away!. Not sure what is happening with konstant61 game.
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This is working as intended. Short form, the 8.2m bot rolled badly (80%) while the 3.9m bot rolled above average (above 100%).
Baseline earnings value for the 8.2m bot would be (before variety and 2x adjustments) $7,296, roughly 83% on the random roll.
Baseline earnings value for the 3.9m bot would be (again, before variety and 2x adjustments) $5,962, roughly 107% on the random roll.
So the 8.2 million bot just had a bad day, while the other bot had a pretty good day.
What has me scratching my head is what happened in vanilla SJx here (just loaded my current save into SJx 200d 'vanilla'...
Note that Galbarella is worth around9x as much as Yumeni there at the top, yet Yumeni was the top earner in the nightly earnings message (which seems wrong, see below). Lessee if I can dig into the nightly tallies using the console for the 'earned today' numbers...
Yumeni: 854.876 Cr ---- Value 80.5k Cr
Galbarella: 925,539 Cr --- Value 690k Cr
Titania: 939,174 Cr --- Value 98.2k Cr
Adora 946,818 Cr --- Value 184k Cr
Not a full sample, but you can see that the nightly earnings ranges in vanilla SJx are actually fairly close to each other using the above examples.
That's yv0751's much more complicated earnings calculator (which I posted a fair number of posts back now) at work. So it was ALREADY possible for much lower value bots to exceed higher value bot earnings, or at least get very close...
Back on topic though, yeah lower value bots sometimes earning more than higher value ones is 'expected behavior', in 'vanilla' as well as well as the "OhWeeMod' version.
konstant61
Member
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Good to see that you figured it out konstant61!
Quick question. What does the cheat mod allow you to do? I've never bothered with it 'cuz I'm adept at using Ren'Py console to modify variables, say
GAME.money += 100000000
GAME.hour = 12
etc. etc.
The reason I ask is, now that the 'gameplay mod' icon is in play, I COULD add some basic cheats there, depending on what people are looking for.
Quick question. What does the cheat mod allow you to do? I've never bothered with it 'cuz I'm adept at using Ren'Py console to modify variables, say
GAME.money += 100000000
GAME.hour = 12
etc. etc.
The reason I ask is, now that the 'gameplay mod' icon is in play, I COULD add some basic cheats there, depending on what people are looking for.
to have a better chance for beginner players with low value bots to earn some money there is an adjustment done at the low range and also at the very top range.
It is still ensured, however, that any bot with a value higher than another other bot also has a higher earning.
There is a small random factor every day in the arcade I think and also when you auction off your bot.
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Yes, I am aware that this is intended behavior. Essentially we are each using different math approaches to try to accomplish the same thing, i.e. a 'curve' that makes low value bots 'less useless' in the arcade' and also prevents very high valued bots from dominating in nightly income.
Nothing wrong with either approach. My personal goal is just trying to 'tamp down' top end bot values without making low end value bots even less useful...
konstant61
Member
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What had me intrigued is that i NEVER saw in more than 100 days so far(in the "vanila" game) anyone else but NAN(the 8.2m bot) be the top earner, and then suddenly with your mod, someone less than half her value is the top earner.
Either way, how can i modify the values to bring the earnings back to what they were before? While i do like your customizations of the UI and the ship`s systems management and also the filters in the bot parts (which are a huge improvement and most helpful) the whole value/income deprecation of the bots is only giving me headaches... With the "default" setting, i get more than 1 BILLION per night, which is not ok, with the "suggested" setting i get less income than the expenses i have, which again is not ok. I really want to keep the mod for the customizations, but i also really want to cut out all the value/income deprecation part.
Also, i would like to point out that what i, personally, expect from the game is to be able to build some bots and send them to the arcade so that they will bring me passive income, and NOT to spend all my time in the lab building bots to sell them because the daily passive income is now lower than my daily expenses. I want to enjoy the free time this passive income generated by the bots give me to be able to enjoy pursuing and completing the quests/achievements and discovering the content of the game, not being closed in a lab clicking the same 10 buttons every day, all day long.
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OK, so I need to rename the 'default' value in my mod. My bot value calculator significantly lowers the value of high end bots (yeah $700m Cr bots just aren't gonna happen) and as I noted these are 'game breaking' already, which is why I changed some 'multipliers' to 'adders' in the bot value calculators to get values back under control.
And obviously, the adjust exponent over 0.5x thing isn't going to play nice with the 8-12x multiplier, which in older versions of SJx was around .0015-.0022, so several orders of magnitude less...
The main issue here is the 'final result'. I like the spread between low value bots and high value bots that I came up with currently.
125,000 cr - 2354 cr arcade baseline
250,000 cr - 2500 cr arcade baseline
500,000 cr - 2707 cr arcade baseline
1,000,000 cr - 3000 cr arcade baseline
5,000,000 cr - 4236 cr arcade baseline
10,000,000 cr - 5,162 cr arcade baseline
50,000,000 cr - 9,000 cr arcade baseline
So the short form here is that the 125,000 cr bot has a baseline earnings around 3.8 times less than the 'crazy maximum' 50,000,000 bot using my suggested settings.
Note that Galbarella/Galaxina Shell in my current game is sitting around 44k, with almost exclusively 'elite' stuff in her build, using my 'suggested' values.
My other option would be to 'flip between formulas' i.e. the yv0751 formula vs my 'squareroot' formula. I'd rather not do this, as I'm quite happy with the 'spread' above, and in vanilla SJx the ulta high value bots were hitting a just under 1m cr ceiling for nightly earnings.
This can be accomplished easily by just increasing the nightly income multiplier up from 2x to some higher value. a 10x multiplier instead of the 'suggested' 2x here would put the high value bots in around the 1m cr nightly earnings range.
SilverFire
Just saw that you posted. Short form, start with suggested settings, maximize base value at 1x, maximize arcade earnings to 5x, and maximize the base value offset (50k) but leave the exponent multiplier at .5 x (that's the part that 'breaks the game if the value is too high).
This will put you in the $6 million/day range for income for now.
Note that I'm going to make a few more adjustments on my end to the gameplay tweak levels, i.e. bump Arcade Earnings to 10x maximum and remove the exponent bar 'cuz things are balanced to the squareroot thing already...
The point of all this is to let people set these values to their own taste. It's your game, play it your way!
Well, except for having bots worth over 100 million credits, that's just crazy talk! That's 'set you up for life' kind of money!
And obviously, the adjust exponent over 0.5x thing isn't going to play nice with the 8-12x multiplier, which in older versions of SJx was around .0015-.0022, so several orders of magnitude less...
The main issue here is the 'final result'. I like the spread between low value bots and high value bots that I came up with currently.
125,000 cr - 2354 cr arcade baseline
250,000 cr - 2500 cr arcade baseline
500,000 cr - 2707 cr arcade baseline
1,000,000 cr - 3000 cr arcade baseline
5,000,000 cr - 4236 cr arcade baseline
10,000,000 cr - 5,162 cr arcade baseline
50,000,000 cr - 9,000 cr arcade baseline
So the short form here is that the 125,000 cr bot has a baseline earnings around 3.8 times less than the 'crazy maximum' 50,000,000 bot using my suggested settings.
Note that Galbarella/Galaxina Shell in my current game is sitting around 44k, with almost exclusively 'elite' stuff in her build, using my 'suggested' values.
My other option would be to 'flip between formulas' i.e. the yv0751 formula vs my 'squareroot' formula. I'd rather not do this, as I'm quite happy with the 'spread' above, and in vanilla SJx the ulta high value bots were hitting a just under 1m cr ceiling for nightly earnings.
This can be accomplished easily by just increasing the nightly income multiplier up from 2x to some higher value. a 10x multiplier instead of the 'suggested' 2x here would put the high value bots in around the 1m cr nightly earnings range.
SilverFire
Just saw that you posted. Short form, start with suggested settings, maximize base value at 1x, maximize arcade earnings to 5x, and maximize the base value offset (50k) but leave the exponent multiplier at .5 x (that's the part that 'breaks the game if the value is too high).
This will put you in the $6 million/day range for income for now.
Note that I'm going to make a few more adjustments on my end to the gameplay tweak levels, i.e. bump Arcade Earnings to 10x maximum and remove the exponent bar 'cuz things are balanced to the squareroot thing already...
The point of all this is to let people set these values to their own taste. It's your game, play it your way!
Well, except for having bots worth over 100 million credits, that's just crazy talk! That's 'set you up for life' kind of money!
While i am aware that my opinion might not carry much weight for you, i would strongly suggest that you do exactly that. Can`t you make the "default" button use dev`s formula and the "suggested" button use your formula? Or if you can`t do this, then maybe you can make the bot value altering part as a second, independent mod, that we could download separately and add it or not?
I mean, here is the thing: While all the other customizations of your mod are indeed very good and helpful and big QOL improvements, cutting on the bot values and incomes is just you imposing your own preferences on everyone using your mod, and it`s a critical flaw, especially if the dev sets an achievement of accumulating 500m credits and you cut the values and incomes down to 0.1 of what they were, meaning i get less than 1m/day from passive income which barely covers expenses and sometimes it`s not even enough for that (by several orders of magnitude, meaning that i have expenses of 10-15-60 MILIONS and my passive income is 700k
). As i previously said, i don`t want to spend all the ingame time locked in a place building bots to sell them, i want to spend it following the quests and unlocking the content.
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I believe your main issue was how much income you were drawing in before from the arcade vs. what happens in my mod. You mentioned NOT wanting to sell a bunch of bots, instead focusing on making the 'best' bots to work in your arcade to rake in the cash while you focus on other areas of the game. Am I correct in this?
This screenshot below highlights why I have an issue with bot valuation as it stands:
Note Galbarella's value in vanilla SJx. 689 million credits. That's stupidly high. Checking to see how much I can sell her for...
You mentioned that 500k award before. Well, this one sale more than covers that already! 789 million = just stop worrying about doing ANYTHING and instead focus on the sprint to the endgame. Which isn't that far off at this stage btw.
AGAIN, 789 millon was the sale price in VANILLA SJX. Ummm...
This is GAME BREAKING imho, hence why I strive to lower high end bot values to increase the challenge. I really can't, in good conscience, let the current situation slide where my mod is involved.
BTW, the nightly arcade earnings total with my 'mega lineup' in vanilla SJx was around $7 million, which is pretty much the same earnings total as I achieved IN MY MOD using the settings I gave to you, with the high end bot resale values reduced by around 8-10x to boot.
I'm not trying to be argumentative here, I'm just trying to explain WHY I feel so strongly that high end bot valuations are too high.
If you want the same nightly income values as before, that can already happen in my mod (just set things like I explained).
As for who earns the most each night, as I noted, isn't it more interesting if the bots are switching it up every so often? Like I said 80-120% random range for each bot, based on their adjusted total value (positions also swap in vanilla SJx). Every bot can have a bad night, it makes for more interesting 'role playing' head canon. Since we don't get to see the sexbots doing their jobs currently, it's all about the head canon...
I hope that I'm making sense here.
Short form:
1) Open up gameplay tweaks screen from computer terminal
2) Set values as follows:
- Bot Value 1x
- Arcade Multiplier 5x
- Exponent at .5x (don't raise this) - Note that this setting is going away in the next hotfix.
- Value offset at 50,000
This will 'restore' your income levels to pretty much where they were before. If they fall slightly short, I'm already planning to increase the Arcade Multiplier range to 10x, which should blow past what you were earning before each night in the arcade.
I'm trying to help here, while making SJx more interesting/less Monty Haul-ish as it pertains to BOT SALES.
Hopefully this will be good enough for now.
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Yes, shouldn`t this be the objective of any gamer, unlocking the content, exploring the game? And i do like building bots, that`s why i already spent so much time doing this, but i don`t like doing ONLY this all day long, and especially i don`t like being FORCED to do so. All i`m saying is to give people an option, to apply the bot value part or not. Would it be so hard to make the "default" button use dev`s formula and the "suggested" button use your formula?
Yeah, i don`t have a problem with this and yes, i do like more variety, always. I was just surprised because as i said, i NEVER saw anyone else be the top earner before, in more than 100 days, even if you say that positions also swap in vanilla SJx. But maybe adjust the random range to 90-110%, to more accurately reflect their value in the incomes they generate? I dunno, seeing how a bot generates more income than another one that is more than double it`s value just doesn`t sit right with me. I just find this to be illogical. If they were of approximate same value, yeah, of course, they would have approximate same incomes and they could easily have good/bad days and switch places in top earner. But when they are an order of magnitude apart in value, i don`t understand how they can have approximate same income. It`s just not logical. Especially since their income is directly tied to their value. If their income would be dictated by their traits/personality/skills only, that would be a whole other situation.
Also, an important question on this topic. Is the income calculated before or after adding the value a shell adds to a bot?
Hey, i understand completely what you are saying, and i agree. Like i said, i have no problem reducing the bot value, i am a true gamer and i don`t like to use cheats, and selling just one superbot with this values would be like cheating. I like to work towards a goal and achieve it through work, skill and dedication, not cheating, so i understand your position perfectly. Fortunately, you already said that you have lowered the bots values without impacting their income, that`s what i actually want. I did not play anymore since i posted those 2 pics of the income with the default and suggested settings, but after this post i`ll resume playing and check for myself.
But i have one more little issue: You said that having more variety in attitude/traits/personality adds income. Maybe i am wrong and didn`t understand all the details so i only partially agree with how you implemented this. Why would i ever want to send an insidious inflexible conservative gardener or a devious aggressive wholesome doctor or a rebellious frigid politician to work in a brothel, especially since i have a very limited nr of available slots in the arcade? I think you should use for this income multiplier only the attitudes/traits/personalities that are actually related to working in a brothel, meaning green and pink, i guess. I mean, this multiplier should be a bonus, right? Not a bonus that also adds a malus by forcing you to have bad attitudes/traits/personalities in the lineup.
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I'll try to keep this short.
- Shells add to the total value of the bot, and are included in the total value calculation.
- 'Less desirable' personalities have a smaller or negative effect on total bot value. So while you may get an 'adder' for having a 'less ideal' personality in the arcade, the negative bot value adjustment may negate/wipe out the 'variety' personality income boost. Of course, other bots also benefit from the multiple traits/personalities, but the trait combo' nympho/perverted/pet' has a pretty big impact on total bot value, which as I said may offset overall earnings boost from multiple traits. Same for attitudes and personalities
- As for the income spreads, yeah vanilla SJx gets pretty weird with higher value bots, see my short analysis a few posts above. As to how I'm handling it, as I noted higher value bots will generally earn more each night than lower bots, on average overall.
Here's this 'summary' again:
125,000 cr - 2354 cr arcade baseline
250,000 cr - 2500 cr arcade baseline
500,000 cr - 2707 cr arcade baseline
1,000,000 cr - 3000 cr arcade baseline
5,000,000 cr - 4236 cr arcade baseline
10,000,000 cr - 5,162 cr arcade baseline
50,000,000 cr - 9,000 cr arcade baseline
This is essentially trying to accomplish the same thing as the formula in Vanilla SJx, i.e. giving lesser value bots a chance but with higher value bots still earning more on average, without arcade earnings getting too out of control. Even with this 'tightened' value spread (due to lower max values for high end bots), arcade earnings can still be 'very similar to before' as I noted.
Lower value bots earning comparatively more in the early game is important, as there's a lot of ship upgrades to buy in the early game.
BTW, the 'baseline value' gets multiplied by 8-12x (random) and by the 'Total Variety bonus' in play, say 1.5x as an example, plus add in the 5x Arcade Income adjustment (mod slider max) equals 60-90x total in this example. So with a $10m/8,162 cr base value (+50k offset slider) ends up around $612,000 each night on average.
* note that I will be increasing the 'arcade multiplier' max to 10x in the next mod update, working on something else atm, so that $612k average would double to 1.25m if slider is maxed at 10x.
Also, on a 'role playing aspect' note, remember that arcade customers only have so much to spend, so having 'takes' flatten out towards the high end makes sense. They may stretch their budgets a bit for a 'really hot' bot vs. a 'rather cute' bot, but perhaps not by orders of magnitude.
Note that I personally feel this should be lower as well/$6m per night is too high for my tastes, but then that's what the 'difficulty/income' sliders are for. To each their own.
That's it in a nutshell. Some birdie convinced me to adapt the 'cheat' mod for my SJx mod, easy peasy, but of course now I'm tweaking things in someone else's mod to make it a bit prettier...
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Yes, that part is obvious, but i`m still unclear if a bot`s income is calculated before or after the shell`s value is added to the bot`s total value. To make my question simpler, are the shells affecting a bot`s income or not?
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SilverFire
The bot's total value includes EVERYTHING you see on the bot configurator screen, including shells.
Income is based solely on the total value. It's pretty straightforward in that respect.
The 'multi-shell' income and other variety bonuses in the arcade that I added may be throwing you off. Those 'added' modifiers are just a simple way to 'simulate' different customers entering an arcade seeking their particular affinities, since customer interactions aren't otherwise tracked in SJx. It would be cool if SJx had that functionality, but of course other brothel sims are out there for those that like such things.
The bot's total value includes EVERYTHING you see on the bot configurator screen, including shells.
Income is based solely on the total value. It's pretty straightforward in that respect.
The 'multi-shell' income and other variety bonuses in the arcade that I added may be throwing you off. Those 'added' modifiers are just a simple way to 'simulate' different customers entering an arcade seeking their particular affinities, since customer interactions aren't otherwise tracked in SJx. It would be cool if SJx had that functionality, but of course other brothel sims are out there for those that like such things.
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OK, so earlier today, some evil birdie pointed out that the CheatNet mod code was causing a conflict with my mod...
(kudos to batmantitties for creating said mod!)
So, I fixed that issue hours ago, but of course I just HAD to look at the rest of the CheatNet code, and have been re-organizing things ever since, seeing that I modified the choice menu code a while back to make things look prettier, and 'cuz, you know, cheat options might be nice when you just need something for testing purposes or whatever, and don't want to mess with trying to figure out which code/variable/string to type into the console...
So I guess this will be another thing now. I WAS going to work on modifying Shell Grade & Cat code so that said upgrades would generally choose to build higher Grade/Cat shells based on Nimhe's skill level and such, you know, that final loose end that I've been putting off, but y'all keep DISTRACTING ME!
Just sayin...
Edit; Why stuff like this takes me so long. When I see a need for more choice options...
Yep, more OhWee choice menu silliness!
(kudos to batmantitties for creating said mod!)
So, I fixed that issue hours ago, but of course I just HAD to look at the rest of the CheatNet code, and have been re-organizing things ever since, seeing that I modified the choice menu code a while back to make things look prettier, and 'cuz, you know, cheat options might be nice when you just need something for testing purposes or whatever, and don't want to mess with trying to figure out which code/variable/string to type into the console...
So I guess this will be another thing now. I WAS going to work on modifying Shell Grade & Cat code so that said upgrades would generally choose to build higher Grade/Cat shells based on Nimhe's skill level and such, you know, that final loose end that I've been putting off, but y'all keep DISTRACTING ME!
Just sayin...
Edit; Why stuff like this takes me so long. When I see a need for more choice options...
Yep, more OhWee choice menu silliness!
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When you are done with the Shell Grade stuff, do you think you could make the Bot Analyzer to also include the bots that are in the Arcade? It would be nice to be able to compare a bot under construction/training with my top earner without having to recall it from the Arcade. Also, expanding a little bit on this idea, it would also be nice if we could use the Bot Analyzer on 2 bots in the Arcade. Maybe that could be included somehow in the "View Mode" already existent in the Arcade?
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Another day...
So, as noted above, I've been playing around with batmantitties CheatNet mod. At this point, it's a major revision 'cuz that's how I roll I guess, so I created a new icon to differentiate the two versions. I'm calling the 'modded' version of the mod CheatNetX, but it'll still show CheatNet on the Captain's Quarters computer screen.
I added an 'enable/disable' button to my Gameplay/Bot Economy Settings. If the associated CheatNetX file is present, you'll see the icon, otherwise it will be hidden. Also note that the 'Exponent' adjustment bar has been removed.
The 'swapped' icon is AI art from Freepik.com btw, which I adjusted to taste. Freepik is a fun place to find pics!
Note that I swapped out the 'usual' CheatNet screen icon to help avoid confusion between the two versions. This way, hopefully people won't ask batmantitties questions about my own 'modded' version of said mod. He is of course free to borrow any ideas/suggestions/code from the 'tweaked' version, but since I'm adding pics and stuff, yeah the 'OhWee mod enhanced version' probably won't work properly in Vanilla SJx... Should be easy peasy to remove the extra stuff though if batmantitties is so inclined!
I'll be releasing the 'modded' version of the CheatNet mod as a separate package alongside my own mod updates soon, of course crediting batmantitties for creation of said mod!
Other than that, yeah I'm still madly doing code adjustments. Note that I added new functionality to the Choice menu, I've set up the associated screen so that I can assign one or two extra pictures to the menu now... Here's how the 'main menu' menu for the CheatNet(X) interface currently looks.
The left side of the menu box essentially isn't being used (tooltips, if available, will appear to the right of the menu choices), so now I can stick whichever pics I want there! The associated image variables have position and zoom elements, so I can nudge things around and shrink them if needed 'in place' where the associated menu code is located.
Me and my silly ideas. I just like looking at virtual babes mostly...
I should have some sort of mod update ready to share within the next day or so.
Carry on!
So, as noted above, I've been playing around with batmantitties CheatNet mod. At this point, it's a major revision 'cuz that's how I roll I guess, so I created a new icon to differentiate the two versions. I'm calling the 'modded' version of the mod CheatNetX, but it'll still show CheatNet on the Captain's Quarters computer screen.
I added an 'enable/disable' button to my Gameplay/Bot Economy Settings. If the associated CheatNetX file is present, you'll see the icon, otherwise it will be hidden. Also note that the 'Exponent' adjustment bar has been removed.
The 'swapped' icon is AI art from Freepik.com btw, which I adjusted to taste. Freepik is a fun place to find pics!
Note that I swapped out the 'usual' CheatNet screen icon to help avoid confusion between the two versions. This way, hopefully people won't ask batmantitties questions about my own 'modded' version of said mod. He is of course free to borrow any ideas/suggestions/code from the 'tweaked' version, but since I'm adding pics and stuff, yeah the 'OhWee mod enhanced version' probably won't work properly in Vanilla SJx... Should be easy peasy to remove the extra stuff though if batmantitties is so inclined!
I'll be releasing the 'modded' version of the CheatNet mod as a separate package alongside my own mod updates soon, of course crediting batmantitties for creation of said mod!
Other than that, yeah I'm still madly doing code adjustments. Note that I added new functionality to the Choice menu, I've set up the associated screen so that I can assign one or two extra pictures to the menu now... Here's how the 'main menu' menu for the CheatNet(X) interface currently looks.
The left side of the menu box essentially isn't being used (tooltips, if available, will appear to the right of the menu choices), so now I can stick whichever pics I want there! The associated image variables have position and zoom elements, so I can nudge things around and shrink them if needed 'in place' where the associated menu code is located.
Me and my silly ideas. I just like looking at virtual babes mostly...
I should have some sort of mod update ready to share within the next day or so.
Carry on!
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